*** Starting logfile /home/linc/irc.log
IRC log started Wed Sep 29 20:51:10 2004
*** Value of LOG set to ON
<init2null> have any of you ever used qemu much?
<Patrick> skype anyone?
<Patrick> we need a tester
<bkuebler> skype != free
<Patrick> it's free right now
<bkuebler> bkuebler = cheap
<Patrick> you have to pay if you want to call a non skype user
<bkuebler> pleez....
<Patrick> they have a linux client that works quite well
<Patrick> good enough for me
<bkuebler> everyone i know has trouble figuring out a .zip file.
<bkuebler> they are not going to use skype.
<Patrick> they have a client for mac and windoze as well
<bkuebler> it couldn't replace my home phone right now, so no real reason to use it.
<Patrick> how about to call into the show?
<bkuebler> I have a flat rate phone plan. I would just use my regular phone.
<Patrick> not if it's the only way to call into the show
<bkuebler> I am not trying to piss on your cornflakes...
<Patrick> no problem
<Patrick> I'm not a software nazi when it comes to 'free software'
<bkuebler> and the guys are on IRC... I can just converse that way.
<Patrick> I dont have a problem paying for software if it's good quality
<Patrick> Free is nice too
<bkuebler> I have issue with it either.
<bkuebler> I am not ALL about free...
<bkuebler> but I have to have a real use for it.
<Patrick> agreed
<Patrick> some of the free software peolple get a little nuts sometimes
<bkuebler> I don't think that the price per minute is low enough yet.
<bkuebler> I am not against people making a living.
<Patrick> especially when you have  mouths to feed :)
*** linuxric (~user@82-38-73-227.cable.ubr07.brad.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined channel #techshow
<rjbs> the problem is not that Skype is not a free piece of software.
<rjbs> the problem is that its protocol is not open.
*** michele (~michele@pool-151-197-215-26.phil.east.verizon.net) has joined channel #techshow
<rjbs> so no one can /write/ free software that interfaces with skype.
<Patrick> live goes on
<rjbs> meanwhile, there exist open standards for voip and internet telephony.
<Patrick> is there a free software voip app available?
<rjbs> I don't know.  
<rjbs> There will be one in the next year, I guarantee.
<Jamesl> What show is this again?
<Patrick> isn't there a version of gaim with voip
<dann> there are a few, but there are compatibility issues between them.
<rjbs> too many of the standards exist and are being implemented.
<dann> Linux Magazine (UK) did a review on a few last month.
<rjbs> RTP and SIP will make Skype obsolete before it gets popular.
<Patrick> don't read that one, I like linux journal
<rjbs> AIM and iChat already use open standards, and the next versions just get opener.
<Patrick> is there an ichat client for linux or netbsd?
<rjbs> MSN Messenger, too.
<rjbs> Patrick: iChat uses AIM.
<rjbs> (Oscar)
<Patrick> I not all that familiar with mac apps
<rjbs> the hard stuff is already semi-standard and is getting better
<rjbs> the problem is the presence system, which makes it all "go"
<rjbs> that predates the voip stuff, and isn't interoperable, and is hard to change
<rjbs> but we're slowly moving to newer protocols.
<rjbs> SIP-presense and XMPP will take over in the next year or two.
<Patrick> we need a US based mirror
<dann> damn skippy
* rjbs goes to lie in bed and read.
<Patrick> That movie he was in with the demonic rock star was really lame
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<Patrick> linc, sounds like a plan
<Patrick> how about the linux show guys, grin, snicker ;)
<init2null> what kind of monthly usage would it take?
<Patrick> the show index will make finding things much easier :)
<Patrick> and Allan showed up in full V costume!
<bkuebler> i wanted to go... out of town...
<Patrick> I still have plenty of Newcastle brown!
<Patrick> Dan, I'm coming over next week, some Stella Artois too!
<dann> next wednesday?
<Patrick> if it's ok
<dann> no problem
<Patrick> deal
<init2null> hmm, i think i could do that.
<bkuebler> $$$$$$$
<oknowton> I've got a virtual debian machine with 3 gig of disk and 50 gig bandwidth per month for 15 bucks a month
<bkuebler> that is cheap.
<oknowton> I've had it a few months, I thought I would have to upgrade to a plan with more ram, but I've been just fine
<dann> who is hosting it?
<oknowton> http://www.tektonic.net
<oknowton> I'm hosting 4 domains so far.  pop3, smtp, bind, postrgres, apache, and sshd on the 64 meg of ram plan
<oknowton> not wonko backwards
<brian> $15 a month? Is that a discounted rate for paying a year in advance?
<oknowton> Nope, month to month
<brian> hmmm. not bad at all...
<oknowton> I started off pricing all the providers using user-mode-linux
<oknowton> These guys use a commercial package to virtualize the machine, but they were significantly cheaper than all the UML providers
<oknowton> My uptime is over 80 days
<oknowton> When I sftped my files from my old provider, they went at over 500+k/sec
<bkuebler> fedora=poop
<Patrick> I'm actually install fedora2 on a spare HD to get mythtv working
<Patrick> It's the first time with RH in more than 4 years for me
<michele> yeah,potty break
<init2null> bkuebler: you take that back! <g>
<Patrick> Slack & Debian rock
<bkuebler> you would have to pay me $3.00 to take it back.
<bkuebler> metal 
<Patrick> fedora actually has apt-get on it
<init2null> hmm, not worth quite that much.
<oknowton> the first one
<bkuebler> kick it old' school metal style!!!
<slkmac> folk
<Patrick> yum, the other package manager is not that great
<oknowton> or if not the second one
<bkuebler> ok... I take it back..
<michele> carry me away......
<Patrick> apt-get is good once you get a bunch of repositories setup
<oknowton> don't bother putting in a domain
<bkuebler> damn...
<bkuebler> not cool man...
<bkuebler> in fact, I will go so far as to say that this is rather lo-fi
<bkuebler> :-)
<oknowton> 24kbps is always lo-fi
<bkuebler> lol
<oknowton> :)
> so who wants me to play the Neurodisney (metal) too?
> We have a long pause - Dann is setting us up with a colo..
<bkuebler> I was lobbying for it.
* bkuebler throws up a devil sign....
<oknowton> I don't know how long it actually took them to set me up.  I just know I ordered very late at night, and by the time I woke up I had an email with the ip :p
<oknowton> http://www.tektonic.net/network.htm
<oknowton> did you guys check that page out yet?
* bkuebler throws himself into the pit...
<Patrick> this isnt bad
* linc bangs head
* bkuebler trashes his living room....
<Patrick> I saw Maiden in NYC last spring and they had this horible Norwegian death metal band open for them
<dann> not only did we check it out, but now I am waiting for our username, password, and IP to arrive.  
<dann> Then the fun begins.
<oknowton> :)
<oknowton> circuit city is evil :)
<Patrick> circuit city never has what they advertise
<dann> I try and stay away from circuit city and best buy anymore.  
<dann> I'm trying to humble my need for immediacy and stick with online vendors.  Nothing wrong with waiting 48 to 72 hours
<Patrick> mythtv howto for debian: ttp://www-isl.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de/~hi93/myth/mythtv_debian_epia_pvr350_walkthrough
<bkuebler> isn't there a knoppix/myth thing?
<bkuebler> http://hust.la/KnoppMyth/
<oknowton> Isn't the knoppix myth stuff just a frontend?
<Patrick> knoppmyth, tried and couldnt get nvidia drivers to load up correctly
<dann> I belive it is, their interface and pizazz on top of myth
<Patrick> I got it going on fedora2
<bkuebler> Cool!   So does this run completely from the CD?
<bkuebler>     * No. You can use the CD as a frontend, but KnoppMyth must be installed to the hard drive.
<oknowton> I had it going on debian for quite a few months
<Patrick> for fedora2 this HOW-TO rocks: http://www.wilsonet.com/
<Patrick> I followed it and it's working
<oknowton> That was me
<Patrick> these guys have a repository for all the required packages
<oknowton> I'm the different pat :p
<dann> that was you on the list?  or who wrote the howto?
<oknowton> On the list
<oknowton> not who wrote the howto :)
<Patrick> mythtv had 69 dependencies
<Patrick> that's not including the drivers for ivtv (for newer hauppauge cards)
<Patrick> dan, stay away from the pickled eggs
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<allan> I think it was worse then eggs.
<dann> tonight it was cambels Chunky Turkey Pot Pie Soup, Kettle Chips, and Grilled Cheese
<Patrick> look at linc bending over for Russ! :)
<Patrick> linc is gushing!
<dann> is that why his nose had some brown streaks on it this evening.
<Patrick> Darren Gaven
<Patrick> the dad from Christmas story
<oknowton> you'll shoot your eye out!
<Patrick> F-R-A-G-I-L-E, from Italy
<allan> I love that line
<Patrick> downloading divx right now
<Patrick> the nice thing about the Hauppauge card is that encodes to MPEG2 in real time, without taxing your cpu
<oknowton> vcds look terrible
<dann> not the two that I have seen.
<dann> but maybe my standards are too low.
<allan> But they play on your dvd player on your tv
<oknowton> actual vcds, or just cds that happen to have divx/xvid avis on them?
<Patrick> weren't the Munsters just released on DVD?
<oknowton> there are a surprising number of dvd players that will play mpeg4 avi files
<Patrick> that and the Adams family are classic
<Patrick> Pat, really, what brands?
<oknowton> I'm going to have to look that up :)
<oknowton> A friend of mine bought a phillips (i think) from walmart that plays them, but has audio sync issues.  it was only 70 bucks
<Patrick> this is a good site: http://www.videohelp.com/
<Patrick> phillips is quality stuff
<bkuebler> just what we needed.
<Patrick> no problems with burned dvds, my sony works well
<oknowton> if you can get one at wally world for 70 bucks that almost plays mpeg4, we're probably pretty close to having a good selection of working players
<Patrick> wally world?
<oknowton> Does ubuntu have its own installer?
<oknowton> walmart :)
<oknowton> or does it use the debian installer?
<Patrick> ok, people love to bash walmart, i think its great, everything is so damn cheap!
<oknowton> I just dislike their check out lines
<Patrick> the new debian net installer is quite good now
<Patrick> I had no problems
<oknowton> i very much like the new debian installer
<oknowton> You Be You En, Too
<Patrick> umbuntu is a horrible name
<Patrick> no one can pronounce it :)
<bkuebler> I don't care what it means, it is bad...
<oknowton> I don't know what it means :)
<bkuebler> it means "humanity to others". 
<Patrick> I think it's a word in swahili?
<brian> If I ever package a Linux distro I am going to call it Tunguska
<Patrick> x takes forever
<Patrick> as well as the desktop manager
<oknowton> or you can install off of cd, but I think that's crazy :)
<oknowton> Every time I've installed debian on a desktop I get right up to gdm
<oknowton> What are you guys doing wrong? :)
<Patrick> Linc, good point about knoppix autodetecter
<Patrick> why can't they integrate into the debian installer
<Patrick> you can install knoppix on your hard drive
<bkuebler> that was Corell
<bkuebler> Corel??
<bkuebler> whatever.
<dann> I know that, I was just questioning the comparision of a version of Debian that you install from the get go with a live cd, built mainly to be a live cd
<Patrick> Xandros = Corel?
<bkuebler> don't you backsass me young man...
<dann> That's right, but Corel was based off of Debian, wasn't it?
<oknowton> xandros is debian based
<Patrick> yup
<Patrick> Xandros is Corel, they sold it to them
<oknowton> yes
<oknowton> Setting things up initially in apt rocks because you start off up to date
<Patrick> debian is solid
<oknowton> You're probably selecting individual packages instead of using tasksel
<oknowton> Just get it up and going with tasksel, and you'll get a usable desktop
<Patrick> linc,  you have to let it install everything, I know you hate that
<bkuebler> just be a man and use Gentoo.
<bkuebler> awesome docs.
<Patrick> Gentoo, for those who have fast machines and no life :)
<dann> yeah, Gentoo.
<dann> No, wait, lfs, there you go.  That'll add hair to the Gentoo user.
<bkuebler> hmm.. good idea...
<Patrick> I might try it again if I had maybe a quad process with 2 gig of memory
<Patrick> crux just came out with a release for PPC
<oknowton> I only have half that, I wouldn't have the patience for gentoo :)
<Patrick> terra soft sell G5's with yellow dog dual boot with OSX
<oknowton> I'm looking at the screenshots, ubuntu looks like it just uses the new deb installer.  Did somebody say that already? :)
<Patrick> is there a package manager with crux?
<bkuebler> Try Arch Linux.. a few people on here seem to be happy with it.
<dann> yup, pkg
<bkuebler> It's basedo on crux
<dann> similar to slackware
* brian likes Arch Linux
<brian> no b.s., no fluff, lean and smooth
<Patrick> good nite
<oknowton> I'll be interested to know how tektonic.net works out for you guys
<Patrick> we'll talk about mythtv
*** Signoff: linuxric (Quit: Leaving)
<Patrick> later
*** Signoff: Patrick (Quit: Leaving)
<allan> Thanks for listening
<oknowton> nite nite
<slkmac> g'night !
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<bkuebler> night all.
<init2null> bye all
*** Signoff: bkuebler (Quit: Leaving)
*** Signoff: allan (Quit: Leaving)
*** Signoff: init2null (Quit: Leaving)
> gnight all!
IRC log ended Wed Sep 29 22:17:02 2004